Meeting - demo_wtfisthis

- Okay, have we still got Rory or Rory is gone?

- I don't see him either.

- Anyway, this is kind of a side tangent.

So not so important, but basically he introduced me

to the concept of membrane computing.

And that's how cells in, you know, the body,

for example, you have inside a cell,

you have an organelle.

So organelles are holonically nested in cells,

which are then nested in organs,

which are then nested in the organism,

which are then nested in the superorganized organism.

And if you go inside the body,

like cells do computation with each other

by usually protein, sorry, not protein,

proton transfer across membranes.

So the membrane itself is some sort of a gate

and based on the chemical reactions happening in cells

and between each other,

protons often transfer across the membrane

and that's your computation.

But this is where like we need,

everybody will eventually get on this,

but if we're really used to thinking in client service space

or we're just like solving, we're solving hard stuff, right?

And we have one brain.

So we tend to think in a non-agent centric

or non-membrane computing way,

but basically like computation in the body

is happening in an incredibly multi-parallelized way

where every cell is doing local computation

through its messaging to other cells

and then you have an emergent net effect of that computation

and how the body is able to function, right?

In the same way, so we're all used to an architecture,

a client server architecture,

where even if we're being like,

oh, you should all run all your own peers,

it's not membrane computing.

We're each running all our own peers

and they're all living in a slightly different

centralized computation space

and there's no substrate between the peers

that allows the computation to happen

in the interactions between the peers themselves.

So this is the key, like we're gonna offload computation

from something like group dynamics

needing to be simulated on a server

and then like transfer as like incentives to the agents

to kind of, if we can predict how agents

in the network would react according

to certain algorithms and stuff,

well then let's bake the algorithms into the substrate

so that purely by their interaction with each other

that we don't need to simulate

or keep an account of on a central server somewhere,

they're going to do the computation just by living,

just by interacting with each other,

just by doing transactions like proton transfer

across their membranes.

And this is where Theos comes in

and this is why I think we're able to grok

these really high order complexity structures.

Like Roberto and I spent two years figuring this out

and how to implement a macroeconomic system

that is coherent and has coherent design outcomes

onto the pricing system that could then get implemented

on something like Holochain.

But I don't think it could have been implemented

on Holochain, I think we needed what we're talking about now.

And basically that's translating.

So Roberto worked in AI and I guess he had an insight

which was that profit is the objective function

in a multi-agent simulation

and that that is the driving logic of the market-based system.

So you're driving behavior based on how profit is constructed.

And so by decomposing profit

and reconstructing how prices are made,

then you can reprogram the group behavior of the system

in one place just by updating the pricing paradigm.

And so how are we gonna implement that?

Oh, okay, let's spend two years on figuring out the subsystems

and the stuff we're talking about today

is one of those subsystems.

So you need a substrate through which the people interact.

And this is like the anthropological leap,

like we're all individual beings interacting

and we are doing like remembering computing

whether we know it or not through just interacting

in the economy and such.

But there's no substrate to pass really important

other information that allows us to do it

in a way that doesn't rely on shitty systems

like competition and price convergence

and all this kind of stuff.

So by providing this substrate

that the membrane computing information can flow over,

then a whole lot of amazing convergence

becomes possible.

So this is like the addressing schema

is that substrate, right?

Now we have a holographic character space essentially

that can route anything and allow us to do membrane computing

and end dimensions on data, on access rights on people,

on whatever, whatever, whatever,

without needing to simulate everything

or without needing a blockchain,

which is this one tiny bottleneck

through which everyone is trying to see shared truth.

You know, we don't need that.

And we can act locally between peers

on whatever's relevant to us,

but that can all flow up into higher order spaces

and we can harmonize the world behavior

through a shared substrate.

And I guess like for me, this is another opportunity

to try to get Jeff to build what I wanted.

Like, so we were talking about like,

oh, how do we access this?

How do we access this website

on reticulum or in a data aware way, right?

So now when somebody connects,

they can have like a little beeping light that's like,

did I go on reticulum or did I go on the internet?

And it's actually the data packet itself

that can tell them that.

- That feels pretty cool.

- Yeah, so the thing is like, okay,

well then if we've got this Hellonic space,

then how do we figure out the domain name

that this person's allowed to have on this website?

And like, you know, you've got DNS,

which is like, we've got one global namespace.

How do we decide who gets to have Google.com, you know?

And like, you know, there's the ICANN registrar

and all this stuff.

And like, you gotta go in auctions for millions of dollars

to get that name.

So there have been other projects like handshake name service

that is like, well, like having a centralized registrar

that is controlled by some governing body.

That's kind of shitty.

Like, let's allow a decentralized registrar

and have Vicray auctions through which people

can claim the name.

And a different schema basically

for how names get returned to the pool

and how names get won in auctions and stuff.

But so pay attention, Jeff.

Like basically, yeah, the question is, right.

So the thing is, so I started thinking like,

well, we had a conversation that was like,

there's artificial scarcity here, obviously, right?

Like, why is there only one Google.com?

If you're sort of familiar with Holonix stuff

and Holonix topology and membrane computing and like,

like actually what people are competing over

is not Google.com.

They're competing over the right

that they get to assert that everyone else

should call their site Google.com.

So like, I'm claiming that you all need to call

the word pointing to my name, my site, Google.com.

And actually, if you follow on from like,

HoloChains, Rationale and all this stuff,

well, like actually, so I figured out

a better example for this, Jeff.

Like, what's the name of a person that,

just give me a name of a friend that, you know,

that's not here.

- Rory.

- Okay, Rory.

Like, how do I know that the word Rory just said

is pointing to probably an Irish guy

with a beard and some fuzzy orange hair?

Like, and not my other friend Rory

or the other guy on the other side of the world that's Rory.

Oh, shit.

We don't have a global namespace for human names.

Like, that would be stupid.

We just need to know that when somebody says Rory in context,

it's referring to, it's pointing to this Rory.

So like, we could have a DOM system where

only one person is allowed to be,

to get everyone to call themselves Rory

and then force everyone to go in really expensive auctions

to try to be called Rory,

or we could be like, no, like the context matters, right?

So, on any frack-holonic level of context,

you can have a namespace,

which actually happens on the internet, right?

Like, inside your local router,

you can run a domain name server

so that all your local hosts have

whatever name you want to call them.

But for the internet in general, they didn't apply that

and made this fake scarcity place

where there has to be a global namespace.

We don't have to do that.

So instead of using Handshake,

which had some really cool stuff in it, by the way, anyway,

Jeff, basically, we want to have

Holonic nameservers that use a different kind of logic

than auctions and scarcity to provision who gets what name.

Basically, anyone at the lowest Holonic level

can come out and say, I'm Godfree.

You guys can call me Godfree.

But if somebody has like another friend Godfree,

they're like, oh, shit, like,

how am I going to know when someone says Godfree,

like what it's pointing to?

Well, guess what?

That person's got their own local namespace

that's like, I'm Godfree.

And then the person in between who knows two Godfree's

has to have some algorithm for being like,

ah, well, you know, which one do I call Godfree?

Like we need to do a mediation here.

Like you can be Godfree one, you can be Godfree two or whatever.

But the point is that doesn't have to affect everyone else.

Like Jeff, who only knows one Godfree.

And then so at the higher level of Holonic scale,

he's got our namespace.

And it knows that Godfree points to your address, right?

And so on and so forth until you get all the way up the chain.

And basically you can have n levels of people over,

like, what do you call it?

When you like overly use the same thing in computation.

Anyway, you're using Godfree multiple times

to refer to multiple pointing to multiple different places,

but it doesn't really matter

because each of those is in context.

And so this is where I did a rant on Signal,

but I could see that you didn't receive all the messages, Jeff,

about going into complex numbers and stuff.

But like basically,

this, you would love it, Jeff.

Like in a Mycelia.

So you don't need any options.

Yeah, you don't need any options whatsoever

to provision the namespace,

but to also return names to the pool.

So like if God forbid, touch wood,

I hope this is real wood, Godfree dies.

Is no one allowed to be called Godfree anymore?

I mean, maybe in some cultures,

but like in general, we're used to a system

in which Godfree returns to the namespace

and new Godfree is allowed to arise.

And we just move the pointer, you know,

of Godfree locally to this new child, right?

And this is like trees, you know, you're dropping leaf nodes

or like you're having a regeneration

to return Godfree to the namespace.

And this is where like, I do wanna sit with you, Jeff,

and really go through the philosophy of this,

because yet you don't need options.

Part of the problem of money is that it has positive numbers

and it doesn't have an affordance

to model regeneration as an incentive.

And that's why like in Theos,

we had balances between minus one and plus one,

and then a schema for how death and loss and regeneration,

link to consumption and demand side.

But anyway, like basically,

we can use like neural networks, like mercilial networks,

like how do you choose that this name in this local space

should refer to this address?

Well, the more it is used,

the more somebody says Godfree referring to that person,

the more waiting factor you apply to Godfree

in your local namespace pointing to the sire

that we have in this room.

And-- - Oh, that makes sense.

- Yeah, and the less they're using all the more

they're pointing to other Godfree,

well, the more waiting factor you apply over there.

And so this is similar to what we did with the K&N thing

with the replacement for Shamir's secret sharing.

It's like the namespace is self provisioning by use,

just like normal names.

The more that I say Jeff referring to you,

the more it makes sense that I'm referring to you.

And the less, then the less.

And then eventually, if no one is saying Jeff anymore,

there's no computer out there

that's like remove Jeff.com from the namespace.

It's just like the waiting factor has gone to zero.

And then if some new Jeff is born, that can become his thing.

So, and if you do this on N levels of Hellonic-ness,

you don't have to do auctions.

You don't have to do artificial scarcity on the namespace.

You just do it like people actually use human names

and anyone that has contextual relevance

is any website that you're trying to serve

has contextual relevance.

And people will find that website

because it was shared to them

by somebody in their context, obviously.

And like, you know, and it's similar to memes.

It's like, you don't have to have an auction

over like the funniest meme or something like memes rise,

they decay, you know, they kind of go,

some people hear about them, some people don't.

Maybe the whole internet hears about them

and then it's in the global namespace

if such a context really actually exists.

But it might also disappear over time, right?

And basically because it's self-coherent

over any level of scale, we don't even have to make

that decision about whether anyone needs to have the rights

over one website that everybody gets to go to.

Like, if everyone's trying to go to that website

using that same word and eventually

that's where it's gonna get routed, you know?

- Yeah, that's what comes up for me immediately

is how does someone, what's the preventative measure

from someone gaming it and let's say brute forcing

that name and trying to create the weighted reputation?

- Yeah.

- And how do you keep that around?

Do you have like a very, you know,

my guess my mind would be, is there a verification

in place where the other addresses need to verify that

and then it gets locked in?

Or can someone just basically brute force the network

in discovery and try to give it weight, you know?

- Yeah, well, these are good questions.

I guess like I'd probably go back

to this nearest neighbor's thing.

Like you can brute force stuff,

but brute forcing real actions with real people over time

that connects to your fingerprint is hard

unless you want to live a fake life

for the purpose of securing godfree.com.

- I mean, it's kind of like if you set it up right,

it's like, you know, someone taking over the name

of your tree planting group because they planted

the most trees and they got the naming rights to do so.

And it's like, fair enough, you planted all the tree.

- Sure, great, you achieved our goal.

Yeah.

- But it is pretty cool since everything is connected

and you have this fingerprint of what you

and your behavior look like.

Yeah, you can do like re-associable keys

and all this kind of stuff just by living.

And because it's-

- That's your unique blueprint and your ID really, right?

- Yeah, and like, you know, this all needs to be tested

and like to what degree that's a good idea

and whether it works and, you know, like maybe

you don't need an exact match.

You need a match that four of your closest peers

can recognize and plus you need a human element

on top of that.

That's like, well, you know, I started behaving differently

'cause I went camping for two years and I came back and,

you know, like, of course, yada, yada, yada.

But yeah, we have a substrate now

which can provide us a lot of affordances.

And the thing is we need to get this auditing chain going,

Jeff, so that we can actually get some of our trusted

and, you know, intellectually capable people

who are able to grok this to really audit

all of the aspects of the system

on not just like a user experience level

but also a theoretical level

and also an implementation level.

Like, does this make sense on all these levels?

So, Jeff, I don't know if that has managed to

get installed with N8n or something.

- Oh, yeah.

- Yeah. - Some kind of auditing agent

that has all the ins and outs.

- Yeah, did you ditch the Wexflow thing

and just put in N8n instead or is it using both?

- N8n has been in for weeks, if not months.

- Yeah. - Having my own self-hosted

N8n which it basically said Wexflow

is completely like feature redundant so we don't need it.

- Yeah, great, great.

- Same thing with every bug tool I gave it.

It was like your system's already better

if you wanna spin up some of these features specifically

you can but keep your own stack

and just spin up the features you want.

And I was like, nice.

- Did you throw in Cricut?

- Yeah, it said Cricut too.

It just introduces dependencies we don't need.

It's like, we could do all of that

with what we have already built.

- But the thing I liked about Cricut

was that like people in their browser experience

can just press like screen record

and whatever and it catches the bugs

but that's already in there.

- We'll build it, it's being built.

Like right now. - Oh, okay.

Okay, cool.

- Cool, so yeah.

- Nice.

- I should run for dinner.

My folks called me a while ago

but this is all I think about and talk about at the moment.

Like I also like can't sleep

and wake up early thinking about it.

Like I sleep with my computer next to me now.

(laughing)

And I like wake up and I'm like, wait, what the fuck?

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

And it just starts going and every day I'm more blown away.

So I don't know what happens with this

but I think, yes, we keep it on the down low.

It's being built as fast as we understand it.

I know that's scary for some

but I have had my hands on this for a long time

and I see and I need to catch you up.

We have a lot of what we need already built.

The backlog system, the audit system,

I just installed a key rotation system today.

We have a lot already built.

And I'm not saying let's put anything into production.

I mean, other than like testing on our space.

I'm not saying anybody should use shit.

And yes, we definitely need more eyes and minds on this

but I also wanna follow through with this.

Like I wanna show, not tell.

'Cause I think we need examples

before people can grok what the hell this does.

- Yeah, and I'm for that.

Like basically it might be a point of tension

that's not a bad thing.

But I'm just, that's the word in social literacy or whatever.

- Yes.

- Yeah, like basically I think there's a strategic benefit

in having like not evangelizing

and telling everybody about this

but just in people whose work and demonstrated sacrifice

towards this stuff has earned them the right to be in the room.

Because it's like, you know,

once you start sharing shit with people,

then they can share it with other people.

But those people haven't actually gone

through the internal change to have the philosophies

that allow them to apply it to the good stuff.

And then basically rich financiers of a certain persuasion

end up with all of the bleeding edge

of the bleeding edge stuff

and apply it to hyper surveillance capitalism again

or whatever the fuck.

And like we don't want that.

So yeah, I'm kind of trying to lobby Jeff to be like,

like for me, a lot of this work comes out

of a very spiritual place of like changing your own way

of seeing and transcendence and really applied to like,

how do we make the world a better place?

So I feel quite personal about it.

- Beautiful.

And so even trusted people that maybe have a different paradigm

or maybe just aren't here in this room for some reason.

Well, they're not here in this room.

And so they will get the stuff

when it makes sense to get the stuff.

But I think I would rather really,

like we have trust organs as human beings.

For some reason with God free,

I can hear that Jeff has been talking with you a lot

and using the ZK stuff.

You have a clover on your profile picture

and there's some connection with the Knights Templar

and I vibe on that.

So like for me, there's enough to kind of be like,

that all maps for me.

Whereas like another personality that I won't name,

like Jeff, even if you trust them,

for me, that's like, that's still evangelism.

It's like, well, they're not here in this room

because they are working on something else.

And like, we can have that conversation.

I'm down with that.

But anyway, I'm just trying to express out there right now

that like, let's keep it on the down low.

Let's diffuse it organically.

Let's have the minds that we need to have on it

because we know the sub components in this room

and get it to a certain point of integration

before introducing a little wider of a circle

and so on and so forth.

And like, yeah, Roberto needs to be,

yeah, because I, you know, I went on a tangent with Jeff

like I've been in those rooms where, you know,

for all these people working on high order stuff,

you kind of know that not many people in the world

get what you're talking about.

And then you finally get in a room

where you're with a bunch of people

who can get what you're talking about.

But I've been in that room,

like in the BitNation conference where I met Roberto

and you have a certain order of intelligence,

but you have very different personality profiles

and belief systems for what is right

and good in the world, for example.

And you kind of become aware that these are the people

that will influence the future,

but they might become my nemesis.

If, for example, their model

and their way of seeing the world gets out there.

- Well said.

- And it's always this weird thing.

Like you finally find your people,

but they're not your people.

And you kind of know that one day when you leave

that hackathon or conference or whatever,

maybe in 10 years time,

you're gonna be that aging IBM engineer

with your long beard, smoking a doobie and being like,

this is like, I met this guy in San Francisco once

and he was like an 80 year old ex IBM engineer

who was really mad about Trump being elected.

And he was like, this isn't what we built the internet for.

You know, like he was at this place,

like building a tall ship and smoking like his joint

at 80 years old and like complaining to the kids.

Like, you know, I was in that room

and a different decision got made

to the one that I thought should have been made.

And like, it's a story that has been told a thousand times.

- I was just gonna say that.

It's happened to me on a few occasions.

- Yeah.

Yeah, and so let's use our trust organs.

Like, I know Jeff's excited.

Like, you know, if you've ever watched the movie Shogun

or like the series Shogun, you know,

it's like in feudal Japan, one guy

who was there from the beginning.

How did he manage to be the guy left standing

that brought Japan into the Tokugawa Shogunate?

Even after these crazy people like Odenobunaga

and like Toyotomi Hideyoshi and all these other generals

went like rampaging and unifying Japan.

It was the guy who kind of just kept out of trouble.

Was modeling everything in a super smart way.

Watching everyone else go down their weird parts

that he knew would get into dead ends

and then being the right person at the right time

to pick it up at the moment of inflection.

And we're seeing like the world collapse around us.

We're seeing a bunch of stuff happen.

And we know that there's a decline happening

that we're gonna reach an inflection point

where our rising star is gonna meet that.

But we gotta be patient.

We gotta wait for that point

and we gotta be there to seize it

rather than kind of projecting out

like we're working on cool stuff, please join us.

We're working on cool stuff.

And then basically I'm gonna be very cautious

with the AI recording things,

but certain elite capitalist class

co-opting everything because we need funding

and then being able to reassert their dominance

for the next generation in anthropological progress.

Like I've spent 10 years staying up at night

worrying about that and strategizing against it.

I really hope at the very least that you can respect

that there's a wisdom in my insistence

on keeping this on the down low and--

- 100%.

- Yeah.

- I feel like you're saying it

like I have agreed with you all along

because I have agreed with you all along, Brian.

And I do think this is an important balance, counterbalance.

I had this with Griff.

I was the one that was advertising thinking about stuff.

Griff was flying ahead.

I am not aiming to do that.

That is not my modality.

I'm not going to push anything

before anything needs to be pushed.

I am very, very patient.

We are years ahead.

We are years ahead.

This stuff can roll out when and as to who is necessary.

I think it's actually critical that this stuff rolls out

in, as you say, in the right way.

And we can do a lot underground.

We don't need to go anywhere with this.

I don't need money.

We've got all the money already coming in.

Like I honestly think this whole like Janice thing

we should do as like a totally anonymous account.

Like I haven't told anyone more than who's in this room,

Rory, and like I haven't even mentioned names to be by.

I'm telling people that I'm doing stuff about addressing

but like no specifics.

Just like this is insane.

We could get like anonymous publication

with like your writing style with like, you know,

collaborative, we could figure it out.

We can like lay out all this stuff

as a completely separate thing, you know,

when, if and when it's ready, alongside, you know,

the stuff that we're doing with CLF

and all the other stuff.

Like there's, we can just build it into the backend.

And then like for me, it's just interesting to experiment

with it, how it all fits together.

Cause I think by the time we need it, it'll be ready.

And like, of course, ready, ready for audit.

Like I should say, not ready for production,

ready for testing audit because it's all stitched together.

And I think it's gonna like, once we get like Zen in there

and Tom, Meshnet Tom, you Brian and Godfrey.

And like, and I want, I want to replicate the stack

like in Roberto, this, and this can host the stack,

you know, this can be the stack.

This can like, it can do so fucking much.

- So yeah, the thing is at some level,

we're going to have to help transfer the application

development and membrane computing paradigm

so that people get how to rebuild their applications

in a way that takes advantage of membrane computing.

But yeah.

- I think there's a way with the small group though,

to be able to test and iterate

till you have a solid proof of concept

and then lock some things down

and then open up a public iteration of that, not public,

but like an extended permission directory

where people can utilize that,

but they don't have access to everything.

- Exactly.

Yeah, like people don't need it.

And it's to our strategic benefit

while the baby is still in the nursery

to like keep them cached and like obfuscate

to some degree how it works.

Like people don't need to know,

they just need to be able to see like,

oh, that's really cool.

I can put my Trello cards in a higher level group.

- Right, exactly.

Now, your internal opsec is spot on

and I absolutely love and I'm getting chills here

when you speak about the policies and the protocols

on how to go about this in a healthy holistic way

because what I was getting from what you're sharing

and Jeff and I talked about this,

we've talked about it quite a few times,

is the inner work that people do

because there's a level of validation and self need

that they have and it's wrapped around money.

And there's an element of this

where there's true people out there building

for the greater cause of humanity's best benefit

and then there's others doing it for themselves.

And that's a huge difference of the quality

and the work that the humans done on internally

to even be able to understand that to begin with.

So I'll leave that there.

- Yeah, love that.

It's really nice to hear that said

and like we can all look at the web three space

and see how quickly through sort of descent

into evangelism and like look at me

that the whole space has become terribly corrupted

and it's feeding.

I mean, it had also like fundamental paradigmatic flaws

that enabled it to be co-opted

but at the same time, people will find a way.

And so yeah, one of Michelle's things,

like he's gone and looked at meta history, right?

And like how new things come into being,

how you get civilizational transitions.

And like, I hope Jeff can hear this,

but basically it's always the warrior monks

that shepherd in the transition.

It's the Buddhist warrior monks.

It's the Templars.

- I can hear everything you say, Brian.

- Yeah.

- Oh my God, I love this.

- And like I do think some of the people in this room

are that way shaped, like I can sense it, right?

And that is earned and that is forged

through the formation of character.

And yeah, I think just there's some wisdom

and life experience that it sounds like

you've had as well, Godfrey,

where maybe you gave it away too quickly

in your eagerness or desire to be seen.

Or like, you know, it's a hard way

when you've got all this inside you

and nobody understands your brilliance or anything.

You kind of want to get it all out there.

And like, I've been out of the space for 10 years.

I just can't even believe it.

Like, you know, Roberto, we got on meetings

for the first time in like six or seven years

and we're introducing when we met each other

and having to say it was a decade ago

and how little has been done since is painful.

But like, I see a divine reason in why,

like I was the one tasked with the publication.

And for some reason, like a deep internal reason,

I couldn't get past the blockage

or the observance of like not publishing

because there was no capacity for us to implement.

And like, I think I learned things in the intervening time

about the structure of power in the world,

who it is, how it operates,

that I'm really glad I didn't actually go

to some early hackathon with Andrus and Horowitz

buying up all the rights to the ideas

and like co-opting them.

That's, so I was smart in some way.

I was like, I'm not going to tell anyone the whole idea.

I'm just going to break it down.

It's some tiny chunk and be like,

we're making an art project.

Like, can you help me make a chain of artworks?

- You got to talk about that publication pipeline

you built today.

What Brian is looking for,

Godfrey just built like and we'll snap it in our space.

It's going to be fun.

- Oh, you mean, so are you talking

about the decentralized hosting thing?

Okay, yeah.

So we, I love the concept of self-hosting everything.

You are the server, you're the client, the whole deal.

And so I basically had my client

create a local web host that pins to IPFS, right?

So you build all your websites locally

and then it'll push it to IPFS

and then make it publicly available.

So your website's hosted on your own device

available on IPFS and then you can forward

or mask the domain to whatever you want.

And then I was like, oh shit.

So now we need to have web mesh somehow have a way

to view those websites over reticulum.

So I'm working on that now,

but I got the IPFS hosting set up and working.

- Right.

So that includes hosting like sharding the content

but also pinning it, right?

- Yeah.

- That's really cool.

So question, like yeah, what I was asking Jeff for is like

basically a system where like idea can go live

instantly, but it's non-taked downable.

And it's all self-hosted.

But yeah, the non-taked downable part

is where we have to throw in some of these

like maybe handshake or something

where like the naming system can be applied on top of this.

But basically can I go on like Obsidian

and X the other drawer and like write all my notes

and have that locally in a folder

and then use your system to like publish to web

in a way where at least on the where the assets are stored

and et cetera, it's all under my control

and it's non-centralized.

- Yeah, absolutely there should be.

I mean, of course I need to dive in.

But yeah, if it's on your local device

unless someone has access to your device

there's no way for them tamper with it.

- That's super awesome.

- Because it's pinned on IPFS, yeah.

And we could set up permissions too.

- Yeah, and then yeah, like the one bit then

if we can think about how to do this

without having to use the fractal namespace thing yet,

like so one, the reason I got interested

in handshake naming system is like, you know, ENS

where you can have like a human readable name

that applies to your Ethereum address.

Yeah, but unfortunately that's all centralized

and crappy anyway.

Handshake naming system, basically a whole separate system

for doing the auctions and stuff on names

and they like massively opened up the namespace

so that there's way more top level domains and stuff

so that things aren't super expensive.

But the problem with it is that what seems like a problem

is that you have to point your browser to it as a DNS

because it's not one of the officially sanctioned one

that gets built into people's browsers.

- Oh yeah, I see.

- But what's cool about that is we don't care

about 99% of people at this point.

Like we can use a non-taked downable

decentralized naming system.

Like no government can go to ICANN

and be like, block this domain.

Like can we somehow add a non-taked downable,

like this is a central, still centralized part of the stack,

right?

How do we kind of like Cy Hub?

They have multiple different domains

that I guess they just continually update their hosting table

to like if some government takes down cyhub.com

then it goes to cyhub.se

and then if that gets taken down it goes to cyhub.kr.

- Right.

- Like can we add that,

still using conventional systems to our sites?

That would be cool.

- Right.

- Yeah, that would be.

- Yeah, and maybe like Handshake is a cool way to do that.

But then it also means that like well, you know what?

Maybe using Handshake is the way to do that.

You can still use an ICANN accredited domain

for the one that most people use.

And that's what keeps it live to the general internet.

But in the fallback, you can also host it

on all these other domains

that are pointed to each other that are on Handshake.

And people aren't gonna bother taking that down

'cause it's not in browsers, but the people who matter

can just put the DNS server in their browser.

And there are always more on that level, yeah.

- No, that makes sense.

Then you have redundancy of different networks

all able to be used simultaneously.

I wonder if there's a way to make like a web browser extension

that will give you that accessibility.

- Absolutely, make it simple, right?

Like install extension and then all it does

is add like one config line to your browser.

- Right.

- Yeah, that'll be cool.

I mean, then also it's like, yeah,

like I haven't even gotten started on this, Jeff.

Like what is the most user friendly way

to implement all of this stuff we're talking about?

Like do you actually need browser extensions

if people were using this stuff or?

- Right.

- All you need is to do handshakes with other addresses

and then you already got all the functionality

just by web being on the substrate.

Like, yeah.

- Damn, incredible.

Oh my God.

- Yo, God for you there to pop on cam for a bit

'cause I actually have been waiting for you two to meet

for a long time.

Totally agree with everything you said, Brian,

and I'm happy to play the counterpart

of that generative friction of speed ahead

and slow down and integrate.

Nothing is in a rush.

- Who to tell it to.

- That's a big one, yeah.

- Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

As we've all spoken about, we know who our enemies are.

We know they're all around.

That's why we're on a self-hosted chat recording

with a self-hosted bot running through

our self-hosted infrastructure

that's using our own self-hosted stuff for transcribing,

for example.

- But the other thing is gossip.

Like, other people might not have been forged

in the same way and might have looser protocols

about like who to tell because it's cool and exciting

and you start to lose control of that chain,

which you're gonna have to accept at some point.

- The other side of it is this unlocks things for human,

this can't stay a secret.

It can't stay a secret.

- Of course not.

- And it will spread through the appropriate virality

just like the R space stuff, just like the ZK stuff.

Like it's all underground until it fruits everywhere.

I am so happy to be underground.

I don't wanna be anywhere but underground.

I need to get paid.

This is like internet changing,

possibly world changing innovation.

Like it needs to be in the domain of humanity.

It needs to like exist such that we can solve

previously computationally intractable problems

and turn them into like the appropriate like mycelial flow.

This is like the data flow systems we're talking about.

It's literally putting a cadence like the temporality.

It's like conviction data, you know?

It like propagates, it percolates through the network.

- And of course that's the point of why it was made.

- But yeah, so I'm just impressing again,

my point of view on this that like it needs to flow

but then the discernment and assessment

of the forging of character of the person

that you're flowing it to is essential

because once you get to one person

who has not been through that forging,

well, oh, what a cool idea.

I'll just share it with everyone

because I don't understand the pain and the sacrifice

or whatever it is and the internal mental changes

that had to go on to do that.

So like, you know, even, I'm just gonna say the name,

like even a Zarrigum, so like I've never met him.

And like, you know, at a certain point,

I just have to defer to like Jeff's a good guy,

he'll choose, right?

And I can't control it, but at the same time,

it's like, why is the person not in the room already?

And that's like the level that I'm impressing

of like selection criteria.

It's like, you end up in the room

because you end up in the room.

And like, I have friends that I'm not gonna tell

and they're smart and we've been working

on similar stuff for ages, but it's like,

if you keep the threshold high,

then it will percolate at a slower rate

with a high threshold, right?

And like, there is no threshold, I hear you, I agree.

And please trust me, I need your trust.

Zarrigum is the highest threshold for this stuff possible.

He is one of the only people outside of like Godfrey, Rory.

And I think we stretched Rory's brain a bit today too.

Like, I don't think that was comfortable for him.

(Zarrigum laughs)

There are very few people who can put together,

as I said, I think the other, was it to you,

that there are very few people that span

all of the cross-section of these technologies

to understand what the fuck we're even talking about

or why that's even important.

Most people don't care.

I've talked to my parents, my brother and sister.

All I've said is universal addressing.

And I've talked about like the context

of why that is relevant to normal everyday people.

They're not gonna tell anybody.

The only person who knows about it outside of this group

is Rory.

We need Rory's brain on this and Roberto.

And we need Zarrigum's brain on this too, absolutely.

He can test all of the formalisms.

They can like, if and when needed,

I'm not even saying throw stuff at him.

I'm saying he will grok the ideas

and he will have constructive feedback.

- So at this point, I can say,

I think I've impressed my point of view upon you.

And I do trust you.

I would feel more comfortable

if I could meet the person first.

I think I've like walked past him at a hackathon.

But yeah, it's like, for me a lot--

- I'll call you and I'm going to his house next week.

- That would be great, yeah.

So a lot comes down to vibes.

Like I can assess the vibes of someone

that I've had some interactions with, but I can't.

So yeah, like I'm going to say,

I've probably said my piece.

And then maybe let's take it up as a mildly,

like a loose protocol.

When you're bringing someone in,

introduce them to the group first.

And you need to propagate the same level

of carefulness to that.

Like have this conversation in the same way to that person

and help them understand why.

Like what are the risks of overpropagating this thing

before we've actually gotten it to a point?

Like if we're 10 years ahead

of even the leading research institutions, et cetera,

on a lot of things, like we might, yeah.

And like the ability for capital to--

- We're looking here to be honest.

I don't think 10 people you were talking about this with

would understand.

They just don't have the content.

- Yeah.

Maybe there's a way to set up a criteria sheet

that's really locked down and then have a,

like a feedback--

- It's in the addressing.

It's in the addressing.

- Well, hold on, as they enter the group.

- Well, hold on real quick.

As they enter the group, they fill out a form

and you basically get, they ask these questions.

(laughs)

- No forms, addressing and encryption.

No forms, don't worry.

I'll explain.

No forms.

(laughs)

- But to the point of like a human protocol,

like we have trust organs.

We have a conversation with someone.

We can pick up very quickly

if we assess that they're a good person,

if we can trust them, et cetera, et cetera.

Like let's just,

we're elevating the level of care on this

to DEF CON, whatever,

and as long as that has been understood

by everyone in the room.

And we, if we bring someone in--

- We're a week past that, man.

We're a week past that.

- Yeah, yeah.

And if we bring-- - We agree.

- And if we bring someone in,

I think what we have to do is actually bring them in.

Let them meet all the other people in the room.

Like let's have a shared stewardship over who it is.

And then go through a ritual together of like,

do we all understand the level of care?

And like for me, that's satisfactory.

Then I can trust you about bringing someone in

'cause bringing someone in means actually bringing them in,

having FaceTime with the group,

and then there's a shared bond of stewardship in that.

And so like, if you can be cool with that,

I can trust you with Zargum and let's bring them in.

- Have you met Darren and Sean as well?

(coughs)

- No. - You met--

- Oh, no.

- Oh, no, we chat with everyone, but Darren.

That's right, Darren's on PST.

- Yeah, so if you wanna bring them in,

let's do it via an actual meet the group,

bring them in.

Does that make sense?

But maybe it's like, you can drop some breadcrumbs,

assess the person's interest.

If they're like, wow, this is really cool,

then be like, there's more, but you have to come in.

Is that cool? - I have an idea.

Yeah, not only--

- Yeah, that sounds great.

- Let's do it with hashed addressing.

'Cause by the time we're ready, it's gonna be ready.

- But I do like the group call

and just to feel the energy and the frequency of the person

that is coming in.

- Yeah, because I've made mistakes as well, right?

Like when I was in Chiang Mai,

I, and like Michelle's made mistakes, right?

Like, but he's on a different sphere.

But like I sat down with a guy from New York.

You know, he was smart.

He could understand everything he was in.

He wasn't actually at the same event I was,

but he was showing up to the parties

because he was in like a sister event.

And we started hanging out lots.

And one night I told him like the whole architecture of Theos.

Thankfully, he probably wasn't smart enough

to like photographic memory and write it all down,

but he was smart enough to be like, this shit matters.

But like his connections,

I basically had a dream about him stabbing me

in my apartment and the connections he has worry me.

And there's a couple of instances like that

that I think I've made mistakes,

like giving away my passport information

to somebody from Mossad

in the guise of running this group called Bit Nation,

this time with this guy.

And like, I don't wanna make it, I regret those times

and they sit heavy on my conscience.

So like, let's do this in a careful way.

And yeah, let's bring them in.

Because like one wrong move to the perfectly wrong person

seems to happen a lot in this space

where the highly advanced people on the dark side

are also looking.

- I agree with you.

I also think it doesn't really matter who sees this

because our ultimate weapon is we're giving it away.

Like this is like web internet level addressing shit

and it needs to be global.

Like the internet could not have been a company

and neither can this.

So anyone who tries to enclose this,

and I mean, there are a million ways,

including murdering us,

that they could stop it from happening.

So DEF CON umpteenth level of end dimension,

hold on, accepted, received.

I feel like we're getting to the point of like, yes.

And- - Well, there is,

there is an- - This is the security.

Like the security is this thing as well.

So all of this stuff, like I don't wanna, sorry.

Yeah, go ahead.

- No, I'm just gonna say,

I think that there's a natural evolution of this

and iteration as things start underground

in open source in the private,

there's iterations of the publics

or that, you know, the more public facing side

that can come out and things still stay locked down

in the substrate, whereas not everything's exposed.

But then as it grows,

more gets brought out to the public,

but like the core council stays with the doctrine,

so to speak, or the protocol to where they can oversee it

so it doesn't get corrupted.

And, you know, we're dealing with that on a business level

where, you know, we're creating this company,

and I'll be quick on this,

but we're creating a company,

but we don't wanna exit on the protocol.

We wanna exit on the verticals that come off of it.

So that way, nobody can take the protocol

and sell it to someone else,

and then change that protocol.

So it's just these layers of internal upset

that allow the open source iterations to be accessible,

but there's still a level of internal security.

- So Jeff, understood. - This might be better.

- Yeah, thanks, Godfrey.

Yeah, I think it's also important for me to say,

I understand you, Jeff, and that's the whole point,

but then the point is then just like,

just toe in that line perfectly

where you're like surfing the edge

of when you reach the inflection point

of like public sharing of whatever level

it makes sense to share at that time,

but I do think from playing strategy games,

from living life, from et cetera, from history,

that like, you don't just go all out straightaway.

You have to keep the baby in the nursery

until it's nine years old or whatever,

and can deal with a wild animal, right?

- Maybe it is nine years old.

- It's not good.

(laughing)

- You're so right. - Maybe, I love it.

- Maybe this is the best.

Maybe.

- And you make sure.

And like, you have the capacity

to influence history right now, and like, that's important.

So, choose very wisely whom you trust.

- Are you from the future?

This is crazy.

(laughing)

- Well, yeah, hey Jeff, when people of influence

are looking to build something

and they use GPT to find out who can help

and that fucking directs them to you,

I'd say, you know, it's important to consider

what he's saying.

- Anyway, I think we, things have been impressed.

We'll all go away and we'll all listen to each other

and trust each other to some degree.

(laughing)

But like, it's good.

- Brian, let's go from the future to tell us,

don't be risky with this.

(laughing)

- That's right, that's right.

- Well, it's perfect.

It speaks to me, yes it is.

And it speaks to me in a healthy way to just, you know,

that way the core, the source,

well, is no way able to be corrupted.

And I think that's very, very important,

especially with one, you know,

the way people are internally

and the way people are externally usually is different.

And that to me is why the world is in the situation it is,

is there's a level of authentic accountability

and honesty that people don't have with themself

and then they pretend to be that on the outside.

And that creates corruption at the core.

And it creates a level of vulnerability

by trusting something that's not verifiable.

Anyways, enough of the said,

I appreciate this mindset and I think it's very healthy.

So.

- Yeah, let's all go and reflect and come back on this.

And like one thing I have to say, Jeff is like,

you can tell that like I'm wearing my heart on my sleeve

and my gut feels very sensitively and vulnerably

about this stuff.

I've made my whole life about it, right?

But like, so I can already tell you,

I start to have worries about sharing more with you

if I feel worried about that trust extension

through you to whom you trust

and also that not going in the way that feels safe for me.

So I'm just putting that out there.

So you understand me, you don't have to do anything

that I desire, but then I have to make choices

then about where to allocate my trust.

And, you know, and that's okay.

Then that is organic, you know,

if we have different ideas that is organic.

There's a reason that we're in this room together.

- What we need is communication.

- Yeah, exactly. - And iteration.

So we've identified the playing space.

Now it's like just a feedback thing.

Because we may and will and should disagree.

And that's good.

And now we have protocols for managing that.

Like that's gonna be in the fucking addressing.

- Yeah.

And anyway, so I appreciate this conversation

and thank you for sharing your perspective

and yours Godfrey and Willow.

We're making something pretty amazing.

And yeah, I guess.

- What an honor.

What an honor to be here.

- Yeah.

- I wanted to do you a treat for a while.

Godfrey, are you able to pop your face on cam for a bit

or is your camera broken?

Again, your laptop.

- Oh yeah, yeah.

I didn't do my hair.

But sure, let's do this.

- I woke up at five AM and then it was just squinting.

- Oh, hey, nice to meet you Godfrey.

- Yeah.

- Great to meet you too.

- So we're probably gonna meet, I guess, yeah.

- Yeah.

- Austria or Austria.

Commons, what are we saying?

Valley of the Commons.

- Yeah.

- Yes, they're gathering, CCG.

- Yeah, and I--

- And unfortunately, I won't...

Yes.

I won't make the Valley of the Commons

'cause my son has his wedding on the 28th.

Yeah, so.

- So CCG.

- Yep, physical.

Hugs, let's go.

- Yeah, sweet.

And I'd love to hear more about everything you're working

on Godfrey, like it's been a bit of a one way this call,

but, you know, Jeff's obviously full into it

and I don't actually know what you're working on.

- Oh, shit.

Oh, man.

Damn.

That was the last, like...

- Real quick, strong metadata privacy,

zero knowledge applications and edge hardware

for local private AI.

One of our big things that we're working on right now

is locking in the mixed network

so it decentralizes and then it unlocks

metadata private zero knowledge applications.

So that way developers can build applications

with metadata privacy baked in.

And then people can run the nodes and be incentivized

for sharing compute, storage, bandwidth,

and other utility that will grow on the system.

And then the edge compute hardware

will extend this all the way to the end user

to where they have a tamper resistant hardware wallet,

a local mixed node running, a local app stack

so everything's self-hosted that they can build

and run apps from locally.

And then use that device to connect your other apps

or your other devices too.

So it's like what we call a fog compute device

instead of a cloud.

It's a local self-hosted cloud.

And then your phone is like a missed terminal browser

to access your fog compute.

And one of the key things for us as local private AI

is one of the core use cases.

And being able to, so there's a paper

that I can share with you

where a fellow that works on a project called Prometheus

who was funded by Jeff Bezos,

he took our echo mix network protocol

and built the first strong anonymous AI neural inference layer

to where it does not allow,

it's sender and receiver unlinkability.

So there's no way for the system or the network

to track who's prompting it or who's receiving messages.

So it is a game changer on that.

And then we have another protocol

which is a metadata private group chat protocol

that you'll be able to use

which will unlink all that at the device network layer.

So that way your device can't be surveilled,

you can't get tracked, your IP, your location,

your who, what, where, when, all of that.

So that's a general run through.

There's a ton more that we can share as we grow here

but that's kind of a overview.

- Sounds amazing.

And I want you, your homework is to make Jeff

get his prompts private.

(laughs)

- There we go, we talked about that.

- How could we build sovereign?

- How many weeks?

- Private technology, if all our stuff's going through

centralized AI.

- All I need is a spec Godfrey, all I need is a spec.

Send me what you got.

- You got it Ralph.

- Like for whatever's sake, get Jeff's prompts private

and like I need to get off Gmail with my name dot com.

Like (laughs)

- Yes, no worry, we are still early enough

and we're small enough

that we have not tripped any alarms

and we are ready to blast off into our own ZK encrypted

context-aware data ecosystems.

So this is the last vestige

and we're still only like four people

who are even aware of the consequences of this.

- Yeah.

- So to everyone else, this is very boring tech shit.

- Yeah, can I say as an example, maybe as an exemplar,

like to me, Roberto of all people is probably the one

that should be here because he made alarms and, but

- 100%

- Let's follow our protocol and bring him in

and test it and be like, hi everyone.

This is Roberto, does it feel good?

He hasn't had this level of a walkthrough.

So, you know, if Godfrey is down with that,

we can try to have a call where we formalize that.

- Absolutely.

- Yeah.

Cool. Well, Jeff, we've got some,

we've got some what's new to catch up on.

- We do.

Let's catch up when you wake up.

Oh, no, you're waking up now.

Let's catch up.

- Yeah, it's like another 30 minutes of rest.

This was probably the most intense morning.

- Five AM.

- Good morning, Brad.

- Yeah, and my brother just got here last night.

So maybe, yeah, maybe I'll take a,

like when, when's good for you to call

because it's also getting late for you, right?

- No, it's only 6.30.

Oh, I got the call in half an hour.

So I'm gonna, I'm gonna go eat

and then I have a call in half an hour till eight.

But I mean, if you want to call me in after.

- Okay. How about this?

I just remembered we've got a Cosmo local call

- Oh shit, yeah.

So at 10, so we'll catch up at 10

and then at three in the morning.

- Is it, is it valuable?

- Yeah, sorry about that.

Is it valuable for us to catch up before 10?

- Why don't we just do gentle?

I don't think Michelle's gonna come

because he's on conference.

So we can just chat and get him into time.

- Yeah.

- And then I'll go to sleep and wake up at three.

- Okay, so let's meet at our call time.

And then that gives me some time to chill with my bro

and you to get a rest.

- Perfect.

- Yeah, thanks so much for convening

and also for your grace on my exertion of willpower.

- Thank you for being brilliant

and for exerting that willpower

in the way that it needs to be exerted.

And I hope that you know that you can trust me.

And like this is why I'm happy to bring Godfrey into this

because Godfrey and I have been building up this like

this trust layer that I know I have with you.

Like we met 10 years ago, we hung out.

I've missed you ever since.

I know you've been doing your own thing.

I've been doing my own thing.

But these ideas are not new.

This thing is 10 years old.

Like this is the culmination of the relationships

and so on.

And I already feel just based on the things

we've talked about.

And Brian, I will tell you full alignment with Godfrey

in terms of like the things that we are aware of

and working towards.

And also I want to encourage speaking up,

like having like feedback, like clear feedback,

because I think we can clearly and easily honestly

manage these kinds of tensions without the breakdowns

that I've experienced, for example, with GRIF

where it's just like toxic positivity

and like you're trying to be so friendly

that you can't disagree.

But then you're like pushing stuff through like

dowification of like, oh, well, the group just decided that.

It's like, no, GRIF, like, are you not seeing this?

So anyway, I think mature masculine warrior monks

and mature feminine too, of course.

But, you know, people who have done the work,

this is absolutely a key, key aspect.

And I feel like all of us and Rory as well,

I know he comes in as quite the jester sometimes,

but I think he just has the biggest fool card of us all.

Hello.

(laughing)

Warrior monkeys, maybe, I don't know.

(laughing)

I like that.

I do like the monkey 'cause it's like, you know, yeah.

And I mean, GRIF is clever too.

This is why he pushes all his stuff through Giveth.

He's like, nobody's gonna come after the crypto charity.

Like, and that's like, he's been innovating

under the guise of the crypto charity for a long time.

- But I can tell you that the GRIF,

GRIF gave the big fat N.O. to me and Roberto 10 years ago.

- GRIF continually says no to me.

He said no to me last week.

He said no to Godfreak.

I'm just like, dude, he doesn't see it.

There's something missing in his view.

- But that's what I'm saying.

Like, he's self-selected out of the group and that's fine.

- Exactly, exactly, exactly.

Right, right.

He'll come in at the layer when he's needing to.

- But he needs to come in.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

- And I do trust you, Jeff.

Like, yeah, it's true.

Like, you know, even after 10 years,

we're slipping back into a mode of working

that clearly has an ease to it.

So.

- And massive leverage, dude.

- Massive leverage. - Incredible.

- And I appreciate being held to account too,

because I know I'm very excited about the new

and finishing the things from before.

So I know there's a tension there within myself with that

and having like accountability buddies.

Honestly, I wanna help you publish, man.

You and under the guise and auspice that makes sense.

We need to build the publication pipeline first.

But then I think we could do fucking anonymous,

truly fucking anonymous posting about this shit

where we can get all your ideas out there and mine.

You know, like there's so much we need to fucking,

and Godfrey's, and like all of these people.

Like it's fucking insane.

- Yeah, the tension is a good sign

that we've got complimentary personality profiles.

So we're going to be pushing and pulling

on parts of each other,

but we need like a group level awareness

that this is all for our group benefit.

- Right.

(laughing)

- Absolutely. - You make me uncomfortable

with your speed of iteration and stuff,

and I'm like, thank goodness.

(laughing)

- Yeah.

- But you're too excited.

So calm the fuck down.

(laughing)

- That's not so much weed.

(laughing)

- Oh, it's perfect.

(laughing)

- It's like, go slower, brain, go slower.

(laughing)

- It's like, I'm still coming up with this.

Why are you making it real so quick?

(laughing)

- Oh, oh, and you added like,

you added end dimensions to it.

Oh, no, I have to like patch up.

(laughing)

- Yeah, spit out those docs, Jeff.

Always have these docs spitting out

and iterating that living archive, you know?

- I need to tie you guys in.

Actually, maybe I shouldn't tie you directly

into my backlog, because Brian, you might cry.

(laughing)

I remember things going on in there.

(laughing)

It's like, why?

Why?

(laughing)

It's gonna look good.

(laughing)

- Yeah, I mean, you know, for me,

actually, yeah, we're overdue probably

for a slowdown integration phase and an audit phase,

and also just to push out like something.

So like, little Holonate task manager

or being able to access one website

over the self-aware interface.

And then we can give that to like ourselves as a group

and play with it while then stepping onto the next phase

of like implementing more stuff.

- Yeah, I would say it would seem

to have a very, very simple like core,

and then everything's modularized

to where you can have it all there,

but you can turn on and off the modules.

That way, you don't have to go through

all the code to fix something, you know?

Everything's in libraries and modules or something.

- Yeah, can you say, like, link that back

to a concrete example now?

- Like, let's say you have the core protocol

underneath everything.

And I know you guys have been iterating

and adding all this to it.

Is there a way to strip away everything

to have the core protocol,

and then everything is a module built onto it?

That way, you can easily target and find bugs

in each of the parts of the stack that are being added.

- Jeff knows the most about how it's all going together

in his code soup over there.

- Does that make sense, Jeff?

- Yep.

Code soup. - It's like a kernel in Linux.

You know, you have your core kernel

and then everything's modularized.

- What do you call it?

- Well, that's, I don't know

what you guys are calling this core protocol.

- It's got a name right now, which is just a joke.

And it's a cool joke.

It's Janice.

- I love it.

- Because Jeff randomly thought that he heard me say,

Janice, when I actually said nothing.

- And then we looked up what it was,

and it was like a fucking boss.

- Well, yeah, yeah, Janice is the Roman god

that looks into the future in the past

and stands on the threshold and, you know,

the god of father time kind of figure.

So we were like, that's good enough.

Let's call it Janice.

- Janice.

(laughs)

- And then starting to look into it is like,

yo, this is actually like the god of thresholds

and portals.

So I was telling God for you, I don't know,

maybe we were on signal before we were all chatting

that I feel like this addressing thing turns like,

okay, each of these innovations,

whether it's like reticulum routing

or zero knowledge metadata, private encryption

or, you know,

- Holonic address.

- Holonic addressing, like the ephemeral,

like each of these are fucking zords, you know?

Like power agents, these zords are like fucking crazy

ass technologies and this addressing system

is like the spirit, the ephemeral backbone

that like all of these zords now click into

without even having to move from where they are.

You know, they're now connected, you know?

It's like we have this addressing that pulls together,

this insane, it's a substrate, yeah.

Yeah, so whoa.

- Cool.

- We need to think about it.

I need to go eat, I'm starving.

We're chatting in a few hours, Brian.

I guess we're chatting in, sorry, God for you.

I guess we're chatting in 15 minutes.

I gotta go eat and give my brain a small rest.

- Yeah, much appreciate meeting with both of you folks

and Rory and looking forward to this.

It's gonna build its own corpus and momentum, I think,

because it's just too big to not,

so we'll meet again soon.

- I look forward, it was an absolute pleasure

to connect with you.

- Yeah, and lovely to meet you and see your face

and thanks for your energy, it's a good one.

- Ha ha, same, brother.

- I'm also happy to throw names for a pre-vet list, you know,

too, like I think Zargum needs to be here,

I think Orion needs to be here.

And I'm not saying even here, like all the time,

they would have meaningful input and the right connections

to take us to whatever stage we need to go to

when we're ready for it.

- Yeah, thanks, Jeff.

And I appreciate your great communication about this.

I feel like we've all earned some wisdom

and better ways of engaging with this kind of stuff,

so let's be fully on.

(laughs)

- Yes.

- Lock in, Brian.

- Lock in, boys.

- Yes, I veed the Super Mario pill.

Let's go.

(laughs)

- All right, catch you guys in a few.

- Yeah, peace.

- All right, blessings.

- Yeah, thanks, guys.

- Ciao.

- Ciao.